how big a government do we want? we don't want to use the opportunity presented by the president's request of us to raise the debt ceiling to freeze in perpetuity this much government. i don't think the american people want it. i don't think it's good for the economy. >> bret: so is a big deal, $4 trillion deal off the table? >> i think it is. everything they told me and the speaker is to get a big package would require big tax increases in the middle of the economic situation that is extraordinarily difficult with 9.2% unemployment. we think it's a terrible idea. it's a job-killer. >> bret: you mention the unemployment rate. it came out friday, 9.2%. uptick, 18,000 jobs only created in june. in your opinion how much has the jobs report affected negotiations? >> well, it incentivizes to us do a big package without raising taxes, but unfortunately, i think the president is not thinking the same thing he did six months ago when the economy didn't seem to me as bad as it is today and he was making arguments of raising t